John Legend on the Legacy of Get Lifted, 20 Years Later

Twenty years ago, before all the shiny gold statues, platinum-selling albums, and critical acclaim, John Legend was an upstart singer and pianist, bouncing between Philadelphia and New York trying to get a record deal. Legend, born John Stephens and raised in Springfield, Ohio, had already appeared on a major-label album (on the track “Everything is Everything” from The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill), so he knew how to interact with music industry royalty.

Yet despite that feature, record execs weren’t sold on Legend’s blend of gospel and R&B until the rapper-producer Kanye West—with whom Legend had been working—released his debut album The College Dropout and became a star. Suddenly, those same execs were interested. “I was signed to G.O.O.D. Music and people were turning me down left and right,” Legend told TIME during an interview in Manhattan recently. “Everybody that we had met with before called back like, ‘You know what, Kanye’s super hot and John’s the next artist on there. And we liked him before, but now because Kanye’s doing so well, we want to get the next thing coming out from their camp.’ And it was me.”

Released Dec. 28, 2004, on Legend’s 26th birthday, his debut album Get Lifted arrived just as neo-soul was phasing out. Gone were the light acoustic drums and Fender Rhodes, in were catchy choruses and edgy melodies, songs rooted in soul yet equally indebted to rap. That’s not to say that neo-soul musicians like Erykah Badu and D’Angelo didn’t know how to craft hits—quite the opposite—but Legend’s Get Lifted seemed to aim for pop appeal. There was a pronounced bounce to songs like “She Don’t Have To Know” and “Number One,” and “Ordinary People” (the album’s landmark track) stood apart from other radio singles at the time. A simple voice-and-piano ballad, “Ordinary People” didn’t sound like anything else being played on the air. Where other popular songs felt oversized and celebratory, Legend’s tune was bare bones, just raw vocals and real talk about the perils of romantic love.

Now, Legend is celebrating 20 years of Get Lifted with an anniversary edition of the album and a tour. He spoke with TIME about the making of the LP, what inspired “Ordinary People,” and what his debut means to him all these years later.

TIME: What were the circumstances that led up to the recording of Get Lifted?

Legend: It started in college, while I was at Penn. I had moved there from small-town Ohio, and I was looking for a church gig to pay the bills. I was introduced to the pastor at this AME church in Scranton, a couple hours north of Philly. And so I started going there every weekend.

One of the singers in the choir was a really talented woman named Tara Michel, who went to high school with Lauryn Hill. Tara said, “Johnny, you got to come meet Lauryn.” So I go to this studio outside of Newark, just a fly on the wall. And then Tara’s like, “You got to play for her.” I end up playing piano on “Everything Is Everything” on The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill, my first credit on a major label project. I started working with some of the producers from that project and other producers based in Philly, friends of friends. My roommate was Devo Harris, who is Kanye’s cousin. 

And then what happened?

I met Kanye in the summer of ‘01. He had just moved to New York and was about to become a well-known producer on Jay-Z’s The Blueprint. I went to his apartment in Newark and we started writing songs together, but also I started singing and doing piano and hooks for his project. Eventually I wrote “Let’s Get Lifted,” “Alright,” and “Used to Love U” with him. We’re literally making songs in our apartment[s]. And then I would drive down to Philly, work with Dave Tozer. And then when I signed with my manager in ‘02, he was like, “You should go out to L.A. and write with Will.i.am.

Fast forward to 2004: The College Dropout comes out in February and blows up. And then finally, everybody was calling. I signed with Columbia through G.O.O.D. Music in May of 2004. Most of Get Lifted had been written. I just had to go and re-record it once I had a budget. Only two songs that I wrote after that were “Let’s Get Lifted Again” and “Ordinary People.”

Get Lifted blends gospel, R&B, and hip-hop. How did you land on that sound? 

We knew that neo-soul had had its time. I wanted it to hit harder, sound bigger, have melodies that were less smooth and more sharp—more of an edge. A lot of neo-soul at the time sounded more like ad-libs and open mics, like a poetry session and people were scatting their way through the song. I looked at The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill as a big inspiration that mixed soul, hip-hop, reggae, and gospel. Kanye West’s College Dropout was an inspiration as well.

The album hits me differently now as an adult in my 40s going through a lot of transition and loss.

It was just where we were as we were writing it, and some of it wasn’t about my own experience. With “Ordinary People,” it was my experience with my parents, who had gotten divorced when I was young. Then they got back together right after I graduated college, around 2000. They got remarried then divorced again as Get Lifted was about to come out. 

It seems like the album was about the ups and downs of a personal relationship. What led to that? 

Some of it was my parents, some was my own life. I wasn’t in a serious relationship, but I had experience with infidelity and some of the things I wrote about. But whenever I write a song, it’s always some mix of autobiography and allowing the creative process to take me where it takes me. I never feel bound by complete truth, but I want everything to feel true.

The title of the album says a lot: Get Lifted. What does that reference? 

I have a natural sense of optimism. It’s not some kind of strategy, it’s just the way my brain works. And so part of it was just having that sense of optimism and spirituality and connection to gospel music. And I had already written the songs, “Let’s Get Lifted” and “So High.” And so it just felt like it was on theme. 

Was there pushback against your using gospel to talk about infidelity? 

Well, I think the Black church is quite used to having R&B singers that blend gospel into secular music. I went to a Pentecostal church, and so many of our best R&B artists came from church. There was always that push and pull because a lot of the leadership would be like, “We don’t want you to be out there making secular music, singing for the world.” But by that point I was far away from home. I felt a sense of independence from my roots, where I could go out and be myself. But I still never forgot where I came from. 

When “Ordinary People” came out, it felt unconventional because it was just your voice and piano, whereas everything on the radio had big drums, big everything.

Everybody would tell me the song made them stop in their tracks because it was such a departure. People still tell me they remember the first time they heard it because it stood out. I always thought that it wasn’t my job to sound like everybody else, but to find a way to just be myself. 

What did you learn about yourself during the creation of that album? 

Part of it was just the resilience of taking rejection. The first time I pitched my demo to anybody was in ‘99 and I didn’t get signed until ‘04. And so that means having to persist through all this rejection, meeting different people, adjusting, improving. And so every time I heard “no,” I’m like, “They’re wrong.” But I’m also listening to feedback and trying to get better. And I did get better. In ‘99, I wasn’t ready. I was learning all that time how to hone my sound, working with the right people to get that right combination.

It seems like you’ve made the records you wanted to make. How would you say you’ve evolved over the years? 

I just kept listening to my own muse and following what I was excited about. Worked with different producers over the years. I made a children’s album last year. I was like, I want to work with Sufjan Stevens. I didn’t know if he was going to be like, “Why am I making a John Legend album?” But he was down, and we made this special, beautiful thing. I’m never going to make another children’s album, but it was like, “If I’m going to do it, I’m going to make it interesting and artful and beautiful and whimsical.”